I think the LB sketch was of a suspicious looking guy at LB that guy that some girls reported, but that doesn’t mean that guy was the attacker. I personally think that Z had a friend with him at the lake that day. Wether this friend knew of what Z was up to, I have no clue.

i take the lb sketch as either a) not the killer, if the killer is our z (just some random guy creeping on sunbathing chicks), b) the killer wearing a disguise, c) the killer of lb, but not our zodiac (copycat/hoax theories).

I believe that the LB sketch was based on what people saw at a distance of the suspicous person that was allegedly following people around or at least creeping them out. The only person that 100% saw the attacker’s face was Cecelia and she did describe him (while in a great deal of pain), but could not assist with a stetch. I think the Stine sketch is probably more accurate.

I believe that the LB sketch was based on what people saw at a distance of the suspicous person that was allegedly following people around or at least creeping them out. The only person that 100% saw the attacker’s face was Cecelia and she did describe him (while in a great deal of pain), but could not assist with a stetch. I think the Stine sketch is probably more accurate.

bryan hartnell survived and gave a description as well. the suspicious person was reported to have been watching three girls sunbathing, but this was hours before the stabbing. it’s one of those things where in hindsight a guy being a creep might look suspicious because there was a murder, but otherwise would have just been a guy being a creep.

I really don’t know where people get the idea that the LB and PH sketches are so drastically different as to preclude depicting the same guy. Give the Berryessa creep a haircut and throw on a pair of cheap reading glasses and you have the Stine shooter. The nose and eyes are identical and the guy seen at Berryessa matches the Presidio Heights killer right down to the hand-me-down pleats and oversized windbreaker. (All this to say nothing of the identical suspect cars at Berryessa and Lake Herman road.) Plus the general shadiness of the guy seen at Berryessa matches the pre-offense behavior of this type of killer. He wasn’t just creepy; he was downright menacing. David Berkowitz, the closest thing we have to the Zodiac in the world of serial murder, would park and walk around the block for hours before settling on someone to shoot. As such, he and his car were seen by a lot of people.

I know it’s a minority opinion, but I’d go so far as to say that the Napa composite, based on prolonged observation by multiple witnesses under optimal lighting conditions, is probably a heck of a lot closer to what the Zodiac actually looked like in his day-to-day life than the bizarre, middle-aged Welshman seen by Don Fouke from the window of a moving car for a matter of milliseconds well after dark. Had that sketch been more widely circulated, it might have led to a narrower crop of suspects and perhaps even an arrest.

Occam’s razor isn’t nearly as intriguing as copycats, coverups, and conspiracies but in this case, I’m certain the simplest explanation is more than sufficient.

I believe that the LB sketch was based on what people saw at a distance of the suspicous person that was allegedly following people around or at least creeping them out. The only person that 100% saw the attacker’s face was Cecelia and she did describe him (while in a great deal of pain), but could not assist with a stetch. I think the Stine sketch is probably more accurate.

bryan hartnell survived and gave a description as well. the suspicious person was reported to have been watching three girls sunbathing, but this was hours before the stabbing. it’s one of those things where in hindsight a guy being a creep might look suspicious because there was a murder, but otherwise would have just been a guy being a creep.

Bryan saw him with a costume on, but Cecelia actually saw his face before he put the mask on and communicate that. She gave the police a brief description before she was taken in the ambulance. Bryan did give a description, height, weight, hair through the mask, but Cecelia saw all of him.

Cecelia saw the guy at quite a distance though, so the best she would be able to offer, as far as details, was hair color. I really doubt she would be able to describe the man’s eyes and shape of the nose, etc. –Same with the teens and Fouke.

There is no doubt (in my mind) what-so-ever the man the three girls saw was the man who attacked Bryan and Cecelia. Almost identical looks, dress, and demeanor (lurking above spying from the trees…walks down, turns away when they looks at him) at a time of year where others were sunbathing, just isn’t probable, imo.

In relation to Sullivan? SF yes. LB no. BRS, from what Mike described height was? No.

There is no doubt (in my mind) what-so-ever the man the three girls saw was the man who attacked Bryan and Cecelia. Almost identical looks, dress, and demeanor (lurking above spying from the trees…walks down, turns away when they looks at him) at a time of year where others were sunbathing, just isn’t probable, imo.

Agree, the big thing to take away is that all the descriptions describe "heavy set" or "overweight."

As for Ross, he was overweight from what we gathered.

1:04:20
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HI0jnsbZwys

Wonder if Mr. Tarbox and Bryan Hartnell were consulted re. these sketches. If not, imo they both should be.

Bryan’s reluctance to speak out is understandable but he has in the past so think this probably came up and I missed it or wasn’t publicized.

Sorry to go ot re. Tarbox but seems he could easily provide at least the initials of the man who visited him saying he was Zodiac. Further, Imo he most certainly has done some checking on the man in all this time out of curiosity just as all the excellent researchers here. With his law background, he would have access to the same plus more investigative tools. Wouldn’t he be curious to at least try to Google Search the name and see what he could learn?

Cecelia saw the guy at quite a distance though, so the best she would be able to offer, as far as details, was hair color. I really doubt she would be able to describe the man’s eyes and shape of the nose, etc. –Same with the teens and Fouke.

There is no doubt (in my mind) what-so-ever the man the three girls saw was the man who attacked Bryan and Cecelia. Almost identical looks, dress, and demeanor (lurking above spying from the trees…walks down, turns away when they looks at him) at a time of year where others were sunbathing, just isn’t probable, imo.

In relation to Sullivan? SF yes. LB no. BRS, from what Mike described height was? No.

Maybe the man was thinking of picking the girls as victims and changed his mind. Forget now at what point Bryan and Cecelia arrived. Were all four there at the same time? He may have known that the girls saw him looking at them, for instance. If so, he could have thought they’d be much more difficult to attack if they were alerted to his presence and worried one or both might start screaming loudly.

I have a few questions.

1) If the Lake Berryessa sketch is a) actually of the Zodiac killer and b) accurate, doesn’t it rule out all the leading persons of interest as possible perpetrators? For my dollars, with the vague possible exception of Lawrence Kane, none of them looks remotely like it.

2)The LB sketch and Stine sketch are as unalike as an apple and an screwdriver. This, above other considerations, leads me to believe that 1) we are talking about two different individuals, 2) the Stine sketch is not reliable and should not be used as a basis for helping to identify the killer (or one of them), or 3) the person described in LB sketch is not the same man who attacked Bryan and Cecelia. The second possibility is obviously problematic as many of the poi’s resemble the Stine sketch very closely and none resembles the LB sketch more than does Franklin Roosevelt.

3) I like Ross Sullivan as a poi. However, since Ross died in 1977 this would make all subsequent letters purported to be by zodiac hoaxes (assuming, of course, Ross to be the zodiac). Are there any letters after the death of Ross that have been confirmed within a reasonable degree of certainty as authenticate?

VALLEY, welcome aboard! Great questions. Everybody seems to be giving you great responses

RE: Lake Berryessa- the Man seen by the girls seemed to have clothes on that would be similar to what Zodiac wore a bit later when he attacked. He was in the same vicinity, although there was a bit of time between the girls seeing him and the attack. I think he certainly needs to be questioned, but that’s just it, he never came forward and they put the word out pretty heavy asking him to come forward, If he was not involved, I am curious why he never did come forward,

RE: LB sketch vs SF Sketch: You’re right, they don’t look much alike. However, if you gave the Guy at the lake a crewcut, and glasses, he starts to look a lot closer to the SF sketch. Mageau always said he had a wide face, I personally think there is a good chance that the SK Sketch should have a fuller face. There is a good thread around here someplace of various sketches, and we compared the Lake B sketch to the SF sketch, with a variety of sketches in between. I will try to point the thread out if I can find it, or if somebody else can, please do.

RE:Ross Sullivan- Ross, as far as I can tell, and I don’t know many that would argue, is the closest likeness to the SF sketch I have ever seen in a Suspect. He did in fact die in 1977, but there are no confirmed Z letters after 1974. Read thru the Ross thread if you have plenty of time! For me, if I had to bet my house on who Z was, I would have to bet on Ross, but there are a bunch of puzzle pieces missing for him

Something on this,

I have been reading over case notes for an assignment I have for uni this semester. In the case (it took place on a beach) a body was found and in the process of canvassing the police found several witnesses who had spotted an odd man walking around the beach, particularly interested in teenage-very early 20 year old girls. The girl found murdered was 19.

Now, after much digging and research they found said man. He was not however the killer, what he was though was a rapist, sex offender and borderline paedophile.

When they did find the responsible party he was about 15 years older than the man I mention above.

The reason I bring this up is that many people can speculate and postulate on the man the girls saw, but it doesn’t mean he was Cecilia’s killer.

The man leaving the cab sure as hell killed Paul Stine. That composite is the more compelling as it is actually substantiated as Z and not just wild speculation

My final point is this, if the situation was similar at Lake B, do you really think (in 1969) that a suspect is going to turn himself and say "Hey, I’m not the guy who did the stabbing, but I was there trawling for my underage prey to rape…"

My final point is this, if the situation was similar at Lake B, do you really think (in 1969) that a suspect is going to turn himself and say "Hey, I’m not the guy who did the stabbing, but I was there trawling for my underage prey to rape…"

Could be as simple as that, yes.

The guy made a certain impression on the girls – they felt he was indeed creeping on them, rather than just being a guy out for a smoke on the lake shore. So, yes, he could have been a shady character in one sense or the other – and as such it’s very unlikely he’d be inclined to get in touch with LE even if he had nothing to do with the attack on BH and CS.

Besides, people have all sorts of reasons for not getting involved – even if they have nothing very sinister to hide. It’s even possible that this guy failed to realize that the cops wanted to talk to him. Perhaps he didn’t read the (local) papers, perhaps he wasn’t from the area (just passing through on a more or less creepy road trip), perhaps he just didn’t care (some people don’t – preferring to mind their own business), etc.

The overall description of the man seen by the girls is on par with the other Zodiac descriptions. The girls even point out he is heavy set, later the Zodiac boot prints from the crime scene determine the perp to be 210 to 220 pounds.

One of the girls even guessed his age at 28. Ross would have turned 29 a few months before.