As far as the prints, I still say it’s valuable. Let them match it to somebody,and then see who the match is. Was he an old chinese guy,or a 40 year old woman? If so, then, yeah, safe to say NOT Zodiac. But if the prints come back to somebody more interesting and more promising,they can easily work to rule them out(or in). I had alot of discussion with NAPA in regards to their phonebooth print evidence. They sort of said, "well,it is a public phonebooth, so if we matched it to somebody, they could say that they used the phone,and nothing more", but my reply was,so what. If you match a print to that booth, you figure out another way to go after them,and you can look for other evidence to get them.

My biggest probem and fear regarding that cab print(or Napa print), is that I don’t think that either one is in a natl data base. If, for one second, Z definitely left both prints at both scenes,and was arrested for a crime today and his prints entered into a database,they might not even get a hit. Hell,I cant say if SFPD and NAPA even have access to each other’s print evidence, same with Riverside PD. Last I heard From retired Napa Det Collins, he said they were attempting to make a central Z database where they could pour all of their files,reports,suspects,and evidence into, and then compare notes to see what they have, and see if there are common suspects and POI’s. Why wasnt that done 20,30,or 40 years ago? I truly think that has been the major stumbling block in this case.

I had to give prints at the SLTPD (a job–not arrested..lol) and the lady there told me they found a bad-guy with prints from 1968! It’s all so high-tech now..digital. I hold faith that some-day-it-may-happen.

As far as the prints, I still say it’s valuable. Let them match it to somebody,and then see who the match is. Was he an old chinese guy,or a 40 year old woman? If so, then, yeah, safe to say NOT Zodiac. But if the prints come back to somebody more interesting and more promising,they can easily work to rule them out(or in). I had alot of discussion with NAPA in regards to their phonebooth print evidence. They sort of said, "well,it is a public phonebooth, so if we matched it to somebody, they could say that they used the phone,and nothing more", but my reply was,so what. If you match a print to that booth, you figure out another way to go after them,and you can look for other evidence to get them.

My biggest probem and fear regarding that cab print(or Napa print), is that I don’t think that either one is in a natl data base. If, for one second, Z definitely left both prints at both scenes,and was arrested for a crime today and his prints entered into a database,they might not even get a hit. Hell,I cant say if SFPD and NAPA even have access to each other’s print evidence, same with Riverside PD. Last I heard From retired Napa Det Collins, he said they were attempting to make a central Z database where they could pour all of their files,reports,suspects,and evidence into, and then compare notes to see what they have, and see if there are common suspects and POI’s. Why wasnt that done 20,30,or 40 years ago? I truly think that has been the major stumbling block in this case.

I do believe that working at putting all the evidence and suspects together as you mentioned Morf, is something that could help. I am pretty sure that nothing partial like prints or DNA have been entered into a data base.
Many of us have seen the picture of the bloody print taken from the cab, it is hopeful that it is the Zodiac’s. I understood that everyone who was working the case that night , who may have touched the cab were checked to be sure it was not one of them. So the odds look good for it being Zodiac’s. This case is solvable, we have to keep working at getting it off of the back burner with new "real" evidence.

What’s all this? I was under the impression that SFPD had closed the case, and weren’t touching it with a ten-foot pole anymore.

Also, why the tizzy over the crime-scene prints when you have perfectly good ones from the letters?

What’s all this? I was under the impression that SFPD had closed the case, and weren’t touching it with a ten-foot pole anymore.

Also, why the tizzy over the crime-scene prints when you have perfectly good ones from the letters?

There is no such thing as truly closing an unsolved murder investigation. They were just not going to do anymore work on it, until someone or something showed up that they felt was good enough evidence to investigate. With less police to work such a cold case and all of the newer unsolved murders, they didn’t have the time to spend on that case. Even after it was believed that they closed the case , they didn’t turn me away when I went there to talk about it.

Which letters are you saying that were proven to be from Zodiac, that had his finger prints on them ? Please give us that link.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/seri … ce_11.html

Prints on the July and August 1969 letters, on the Stine Letter and on the Dragon Card, plus three palm prints on the Exorcist Letter.

Hi-

I’m thinking that all the references to the "rapidity with which DNA technology is advancing" may refer to some evidence we all know about already. I am not an expert on DNA science but it seems to me that if SFPD developed a *new* fragment of DNA, it would be useful now, in the present. How can a fragment of DNA that has a specific, known sequence not be useful now, in that it can be compared to whatever suspects currently have a DNA profile?

The words the Inspector used about the apparent need for there to be advances in DNA technology in the future seem to me to fit the reddish brown hair from behind the stamp. Here are the steps: She is assuming that Z sent the letters. She is therefore assuming that Z had contact with the stamps even if he did not physically lick them. Therefore, the reddish brown hair comes from Z, since Z was described as having reddish hair. The hair by definition contains mt DNA. So they have Z’s DNA but it is currently locked up in the hair and until DNA science progresses to the point where they can successfully (on presumably only ONE try, since the sample is so small) extract and analyze the mt DNA from that hair, a comparison will have to wait until the future.

She seems to mention that the "advancement" we are waiting for is the ability for CODIS to accept this smaller fragment. Unless this is a new fragment with a very good pedigree, I am going to assume that it is the one from 2002. And if so, no advancements in CODIS will help that fragment identify anyone given its provenance. It’s the old "garbage in garbage out" routine. See the link to the article by Fagan in 2009, as well as the wealth of research LL, I and Ray Nixon did since 2002.
If they think the 2002 DNA comes from the letter writer, they have explain that one!

Peace.

Mike

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/notorious/zodiac/evidence_11.html

Prints on the July and August 1969 letters, on the Stine Letter and on the Dragon Card, plus three palm prints on the Exorcist Letter.

Thanks Nachtsider, Didn’t the writer of that story Jake Wark, have a Zodiac site at one time ? I do agree whith him about Chaney perhaps making all of his story about Allen up.

With all of the prints that LE believe are the Zodiac’s, I wonder if any of those were ever put into a data base ? I saw a set of prints that I was told were the Zodiac’s, by Bill White Jr. in Napa,1990, on two cards.
I went there to show a gun that had what looked like was is known as "blow back" in the barrel of the gun. I had bought it along with a 22 rifle for less than $50.00 ,
( They were bought in 1977 from two men who were very suspious.) I wanted the police to look at it and see if it was human blood and hairor not.

Bill White Jr. took it out with tweezers onto his desk. Just then another Det. opened the door and asked Bill if he was ready for lunch ? Bill said yes and swept what could have been murder evidence onto the floor. His father must be very proud of him !
I am very sure that I am not the only one who went there for help and came out disapointed.

The problem with the prints and the DNA is that several different people likely handled the letters, cab and phone booth.
DNA has progressed tremendously since 2002. Now all they need do is dip a swab into distilled water and touch the evidence,
such as the licked felt tip pen writing which fades in and out on some letters as though the writer were wetting it with his tongue.
Recently a Frontline program showed just how unreliable print evidence is, rather disturbing, it is fallible and subjective, and the examiners frequently get it wrong.
My personal belief is that Zodiac left no prints. However, it was still a little early in the 1960’s for Zodiac to be aware of DNA evidence, perhaps or obviously he was avoiding saliva evidence.
I personally sent both hair and DNA profiles to SFPD in January of this year, with no response. It is so nice to hear they are paying attention to this case again.
I wonder the motive.
I do know agents from the CA DOJ visited me in Spring 2011 after I made them aware of my suspect and they had access to our son’s DNA in CODIS.
I have not been informed by either agency that the DNA was not a match.
I was informed by Sacramento Co that the DNA was not a match to the EAR/ONS immediately, and I was informed that the DNA was not a match to the Napa Co
DNA recently recovered.
I also sent hair and DNA profiles to Riverside this past month, no response.
It is quite possible that SFPD has moved far beyond the DNA results from 10 years ago….and should.
Recently the Boston Strangler was identified through a relative’s DNA.

Sandy Betts, was GraySmith at this Great meeting of the minds.
If, so, What did he think about the meeting?
Was there a faint smile on his lips and a devil-may-care look
in his eyes?
Did the meeting set a great course of events in motion?
or, only be some travelers… lost in the fog, seeking shelter
from the storm?

Spookypanda, Graysmith was not there, a comment was made in jest I believe by Kevin Fagan, as to why he wasn’t there.
Maybe Graysmith knew I would be there and would ask him more questions ? He really wants to forget about the Zodiac case was my impression.

Spookypanda, you wouldn’t happen to be friends with key.smith would you?

Spookypanda, you wouldn’t happen to be friends with key.smith would you?

Spookypanda, you wouldn’t happen to be friends with key.smith would you?

Ditto in the wondering.

Hi-

If this person knows RG, maybe they can ask him why he never even tried to interview the Stine eyewitnesses (they told my colleague that and were very puzzled by it) and Officer Fouke. Fouke contacted him after the first book came out and asked RG why he never interviewed him. RG replied by saying that the book was "already in print," so there was nothing he could do about it Yeah, and RG knew before it went to print that he had not interviewed Fouke!

RG knew that both those kids and (it was presumed as of 1986, although incorrectly) Fouke were responsible for the police sketches. Those sketches do not in any way resemble Allen. Both the kids and Fouke categorically reject Allen as the person they saw.

Why ruin a good story about "Robert Hall Starr" by interviewing those witnesses and having them tell RG that they reject Starr as the man they saw? So he neglected the most important witnesses in the case, cornerstone eyewitnesses whose testimony that is pretty much in agreement as to how the man looked, as well as the lighting conditions, lack of fog, the fact that one eyewitness was on the first floor and could estimate height, etc. All of this was withheld, IMHO, in order not to rock the boat about "Starr" and thus shoot down RG’s pet theory.

Shame. This gave us long and unnecessary years of ALA as the "prime suspect," when the eyewitnesses, one of whom was a trained observer, could have ruled him out immediately. Same for SFPD, who never showed them a photo of Allen! What kind of investigation was that?

Mike