Not at all. Actually I am sitting in Budapest in front of my computer with my lovely dog, ready to go to sleep. Really, no intention to direct to you but I only read Ross Ross Ross everywhere, which is super annoying if you are like 99.9% sure that Z is somebody we haven’t mentioned, yet (except ‘Paul Knight’ possibly..and even THAT name doesn’t match the cipher..).

Your post was actually valuable, refreshing, but imo no need to connect it to Ross. Plenty of guys had crew-cut, horn-rimmed glasses that time.

QT

Ugh…I would love to be in Hungary.

Certainly possible, but she was pretty specific, seems she would have mentioned an army jacket. One other thing, people seem to fixate on Ross wearing army boots, but the heel print at the murder scene was not from a boot but from low cut military dress shoes.

I almost added that. The descriptions been so embellished that it almost sounds if we should be on the look out for Snake Plissken.

Your post was actually valuable, refreshing, but imo no need to connect it to Ross. Plenty of guys had crew-cut, horn-rimmed glasses that time.

I would agree, except that there is far more to take into account when discussing this than just the fact that many people had a crew cut.

 

The librarian was talking directly about ross. So it seems important to discuss this in relation to ross… It was a great post and there is no reason for the witnesses there to be disbelieved as far as i can see.

The librarian was talking directly about ross. So it seems important to discuss this in relation to ross… It was a great post and there is no reason for the witnesses there to be disbelieved as far as i can see.

Lorrain DeGroat, however, was not the Riverside librarian. She was from Vallejo. There is not even a hint that RS had ever been to Lake Herman Road, to clarify. No need to disbelieve any ‘witnesses’ either: Librarian saw Ross in Riverside and found him odd. Lorrain might have seen Z at Lake Herman Road. That doesn’t mean that Ross was Z. Or that he ever was at Vallejo area. It even doesn’t mean that Lorrain had seen Z, although that might have been the case. IMO there is nothing pointing to anything except that RS might have had some odd behaviour or that the description DeGroat could be a match to Z – if at all…(Hartnell: dark brown hair…). IMO we don’t even know Z’s hair color for sure. Nor do we know his car, his marital status or his age. The only things we do know is his handwriting and his statements, actions, letters. And even about his actions/letters we are not sure, are we?

QT

The librarian was talking directly about ross. So it seems important to discuss this in relation to ross… It was a great post and there is no reason for the witnesses there to be disbelieved as far as i can see.

Lorrain DeGroat, however, was not the Riverside librarian. She was from Vallejo. There is not even a hint that RS had ever been to Lake Herman Road, to clarify. No need to disbelieve any ‘witnesses’ either: Librarian saw Ross in Riverside and found him odd. Lorrain might have seen Z at Lake Herman Road. That doesn’t mean that Ross was Z. Or that he ever was at Vallejo area. It even doesn’t mean that Lorrain had seen Z, although that might have been the case. IMO there is nothing pointing to anything except that RS might have had some odd behaviour or that the description DeGroat could be a match to Z – if at all…(Hartnell: dark brown hair…). IMO we don’t even know Z’s hair color for sure. Nor do we know his car, his marital status or his age. The only things we do know is his handwriting and his statements, actions, letters. And even about his actions/letters we are not sure, are we?

QT

Don’t forget, Ross had an interest in writing in different writing styles and also ciphers. He was also in the RCC library where Zodiac’s writing was found, he knew Cheri Jo Bates, and in 1967 after the last letters were mailed in the Bates case, Ross moved North in time for the Zodiac murders to start. Oh, and for some reason, his Brother thought he was Zodiac. As far as description, Ross didn’t just have a ‘crew cut, he had a distinct widow’s peak hairline, which was detailed specifically by Fouke. As I’ve said, personally, as being the only Zodiac POI ever to be officially placed inside the RCC library where Zodiac’s writing was found, he’s got a leg up over any other suspects

The librarian was talking directly about ross. So it seems important to discuss this in relation to ross… It was a great post and there is no reason for the witnesses there to be disbelieved as far as i can see.

Lorrain DeGroat, however, was not the Riverside librarian. She was from Vallejo. There is not even a hint that RS had ever been to Lake Herman Road, to clarify. No need to disbelieve any ‘witnesses’ either: Librarian saw Ross in Riverside and found him odd. Lorrain might have seen Z at Lake Herman Road. That doesn’t mean that Ross was Z. Or that he ever was at Vallejo area. It even doesn’t mean that Lorrain had seen Z, although that might have been the case. IMO there is nothing pointing to anything except that RS might have had some odd behaviour or that the description DeGroat could be a match to Z – if at all…(Hartnell: dark brown hair…). IMO we don’t even know Z’s hair color for sure. Nor do we know his car, his marital status or his age. The only things we do know is his handwriting and his statements, actions, letters. And even about his actions/letters we are not sure, are we?

QT

Don’t forget, Ross had an interest in writing in different writing styles and also ciphers. He was also in the RCC library where Zodiac’s writing was found, he knew Cheri Jo Bates, and in 1967 after the last letters were mailed in the Bates case, Ross moved North in time for the Zodiac murders to start. Oh, and for some reason, his Brother thought he was Zodiac. As far as description, Ross didn’t just have a ‘crew cut, he had a distinct widow’s peak hairline, which was detailed specifically by Fouke. As I’ve said, personally, as being the only Zodiac POI ever to be officially placed inside the RCC library where Zodiac’s writing was found, he’s got a leg up over any other suspects

There is another POI who was working at the Riverside library at the time. viewtopic.php?f=107&t=4108

Morf, is there confirmation that Ross knew Cheri Jo ?

There is another POI was working at the Riverside library at the time. viewtopic.php?f=107&t=4108

I have no problem at with the possibility that it could be anyone else other than Ross Sullivan. I’m not married to that idea.

It would be fascinating to show degroat photographs of poi’s. Including mr sullivan of course.

Regarding the ‘incident’ described by ‘DeGroat’:

The timing of it is quite nice…about half an hour before the murder had happened (same day?). A blondish man wearing horn-rimmed glasses is trying to stop four kids at Lake Herman Road. This could very well have been Z. Also the description is a nice match.

Mrs. Peggie YOUR had a similar encounter only about twenty minutes later: She described a mysterious man with dark clothes standing nearby the ‘racoon hunters’. The clothing that was described by DeGroat could be a rain coat, some type of hunting gear.

If that encounter had actually happened, it is very likely that both, Peggie Your as well as Mrs. DeGroat had actually seen the same person near the scene plus matching the Paul Stine sketch, which also Kathleen Johns had recognized. Thus, this specific Z encounter is unique. Besides Hartnell, Mageau, Johns and Tarbox, possibly other people, DeGroat could be one of only a handful people who had met ‘Z’ in action.

The type clothing, however, could place Z closer to the racoon hunters: IF Z was with them, the whole evening, then started to shoot people, they could have known Z as a friend….possibly still know his identity…

some old stuff regarding the Peggie Your encounter (digged it out from 2013..):
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1081&p=12833&hilit=owen+hunt+gun#p12833

BTW, I can’t see even the slightest connection between RS an the area of Lake Herman. Not the slightest. Also think that RS should be kept in the RS section instead of spreading his name all over the board whenever possible without giving any additional information why he should have been there. Didn’t rule him out but just don’t see him being Z (handwriting, lack of being stocky built, not connection to North Bay area, name doesn’t fit the my-name-is cipher etc.). He is interesting but far away from being Z, at least so far. So please, please no spamming the whole board with RS…thanks.

QT

Oh and here to find the TIMELINE of Lake Herman road, just so it won’t be forgotten

http://www.zodiackillersite.com/viewtop … 1&start=40

“The timing of it is quite nice…about half an hour before the murder had happened (same day?). A blondish man wearing horn-rimmed glasses is trying to stop four kids at Lake Herman Road. This could very well have been Z. Also the description is a nice match.”

This event did NOT occur an hour before the murder, but instead some time afterward. It could have been Z indeed. Coincidentally, it also matches Ross Sullivan’s daily clothing style, long Army jacket, and boots, hair length and style, glasses type, and also the car that he was known to drive. If it was him, then that would be the 2nd Zodiac killing site that he was placed at, without even taking into account the accounts of his behavior. That’s an if, but worth looking into deeper without a doubt.

“Mrs. Peggie YOUR had a similar encounter only about twenty minutes later: She described a mysterious man with dark clothes standing nearby the ‘racoon hunters’. The clothing that was described by DeGroat could be a rain coat, some type of hunting gear.”

They had a very close and relatively long and involved dialogue with this individual. She has in various formats described his dark clothing, long Army jacket, hairstyle, glasses, very suspicious behavior and likely lie about his girlfriend being lost in the water and the need to search frantically and yet still entirely dry, as well as his vehicle. ALL of which match Ross Sullivan.

“If that encounter had actually happened, it is very likely that both, Peggie Your as well as Mrs. DeGroat had actually seen the same person near the scene plus matching the Paul Stine sketch, which also Kathleen Johns had recognized. Thus, this specific Z encounter is unique. Besides Hartnell, Mageau, Johns and Tarbox, possibly other people, DeGroat could be one of only a handful people who had met ‘Z’ in action.”

I am not aware of any of them actually being shown images of Ross Sullivan. That would be very interesting information to find out. I can imagine that if the sketch matches the physical description of who they saw then I can say that there is a strong possibility that his image is picked out.

“The type clothing, however, could place Z closer to the racoon hunters: IF Z was with them, the whole evening, then started to shoot people, they could have known Z as a friend….possibly still know his identity…”

It was a different night, but you could be right. They could’ve known him. Coincidentally once again, Ross Sullivan was known to be a good shot, hunted and skinned his own animals, and often displayed the skins for others to see, as well as frequently carrying a knife and threatening or attempting to stab others on multiple occasions.

“BTW, I can’t see even the slightest connection between RS an the area of Lake Herman. Not the slightest. Also think that RS should be kept in the RS section instead of spreading his name all over the board whenever possible without giving any additional information why he should have been there. Didn’t rule him out but just don’t see him being Z (handwriting, lack of being stocky built, not connection to North Bay area, name doesn’t fit the my-name-is cipher etc.). He is interesting but far away from being Z, at least so far. So please, please no spamming the whole board with RS…thanks.”

Maybe there is no connection between Ross and Lake Herman, except for the fact that Lorrain Degroat came face to face with a man who shared or matched Ross Sullivan’s daily clothing style, long Army jacket, and boots, hair length and style, glasses type, and also the car that he was known to drive. Coincidentally, Ross Sullivan is practically a dead ringer for the said sketch. The Zodiac was in fact said to be barrel chested, heavy set, etc.

Librarians and staffers at the Riverside City College library, near where Bates’s body was found, said that Ross Sullivan had made them uncomfortable and disappeared for several days after the murder, only to return without the clothing that he been wearing daily for quite some time. He later moved to northern California and was hospitalized several times for bipolar disorder and schizophrenia. He was criminally insane and known to descend into this abyss for periods of time. As a person who has worked directly with this population for the past 15 years I can tell you that I recognize this behavior such as that in the darkness of Lake Herman rd.

Sullivan wore an Army jacket and military-style boots like those that left footprints at the Lake Berryessa stabbings. Zodiac buffs also note that his letters mention “The Mikado,” by Gilbert and Sullivan, which could be a reference to Sullivan’s name.

In addition though, his handwriting is incredibly close to the Zodiac, he has been known to work in the RCC library, was suspected of being a murderer by the librarians there, was known to produce incredibly disturbing poetry, was said to have very distinctively bad grammatical skills, and the poetry associated with the Zodiac and “Confession letter” displayed many of the same errors found in later letters.

Later it seems that he was interested very much in the Mikado, was said to have been a frequent visitor or at least someone who looked like him, and that the person was disturbing to the actors. Once again, another coincidence indeed and very similar to practically everyone who knew Ross. This was a very common thread. His own brother suspected him of being the Zodiac killer.

It could all be a coincidence, I admit. It DOES however lead one to believe that Ross is at least a very intriguing avenue to venture down until we can safely eliminate his name as a POI. Whether or not it is Ross Sullivan or not is irrelevant to me honestly. He does warrant much further interest though. That is certain.

There is another POI was working at the Riverside library at the time. viewtopic.php?f=107&t=4108

I have no problem at with the possibility that it could be anyone else other than Ross Sullivan. I’m not married to that idea.

That’s the right approach. Cragle’s suspect and Sullivan are the only ones I’m aware of who had any link to RCC at the time.

There is another POI was working at the Riverside library at the time. viewtopic.php?f=107&t=4108

I have no problem at with the possibility that it could be anyone else other than Ross Sullivan. I’m not married to that idea.

That’s the right approach. Cragle’s suspect and Sullivan are the only ones I’m aware of who had any link to RCC at the time.

I had to delete the message as he has since apparently moved to Colorado, but that suspect was living for some time 30 minutes from me. He’s no longer there of course.
That would’ve been very interesting to say the least.

There is another POI was working at the Riverside library at the time. viewtopic.php?f=107&t=4108

I have no problem at with the possibility that it could be anyone else other than Ross Sullivan. I’m not married to that idea.

That’s the right approach. Cragle’s suspect and Sullivan are the only ones I’m aware of who had any link to RCC at the time.

I had to delete the message as he has since apparently moved to Colorado, but that suspect was living for some time 30 minutes from me. He’s no longer there of course.
That would’ve been very interesting to say the least.

He lived close to Fred Manalli in Santa Rosa, too.

Tarbox was brought up here as he spent an hour with the man who confessed of being the Zodiac killer. Does anyone know if he ever helped produce a sketch or commented that a sketch looked like the Zodiac?