I’m going to comment here, somewhat against my better judgement. I have no POI (at all!) or "dog in this fight" whatsoever, and I believe this may be the first post I have ever made in this long thread. That said, I agree with ‘murray’ above. I see a few issues.

There are some in this thread, let’s call them ALPHAs, who are saying "Ross is Zodiac, the evidence is there, it’s clear as day!!" And they often imply that anyone who dares to disagree is some sort of fool or uneducated moron.

Then there are the OMEGAs at the other end who are saying "No way Ross is Zodiac, there is NO clear evidence!!" And they, too, often imply that anyone who dares to disagree is some sort of fool or uneducated moron.

These two opposing sides really ARE the outliers, and the end result is, of course, um, polarizing. Call them whatever, A/Z, Left/Right, whatever. It’s turned into politics, when what it SHOULD be is a search for facts and truth.

And there are people here doing that. Using the Greek alphabet again, the MUs and the NUs are the posters here that are NOT arguing, namecalling, or fighting. They are the ones actually working and trying to dig up whatever real evidence there is.

Those who are in that "middle-space," undecided yet open-minded. Those are the people who really move things along.

-glurk

I know we are missing critical information about Ross — so, when someone is very sure it is him, with no room for doubt, I am skeptical. When accusations are made that those who find him a strong POI are "blind to the doubts, and trying to force him on others," I am equally skeptical.

I agree 100%. Nobody is trying to force Ross on anybody. There are lots of other threads to browse, yet, some people love hanging out in the Ross thread. I think an issue here is, and I’ll say based on strictly my own opinion, is that People are tired of old Suspects and there is nothing left to discuss. Guys like ALA, and Larry Cane, and Marshall, are super old as far as suspects go and have been ruled out for the most part. Guys like Mr X & Gaikowski have been beaten to death. I think that Gaik is the only Suspect that draws the same responses as Ross. You have a lot of People that think he was Z, and a lot of people that think he wasn’t. There is some sort of polarization regarding Ross. I don’t know what it is.

I can say two things, the same two things that are the most powerful facts and can not be denied by anybody. Zodiac, for better or for worse,is linked by the experts to the RCC Library. Ross is linked to that Library-the ONLY Suspect in almost 50 years to be linked there. Ross looks IDENTICAL to the sketch-not just ‘like‘ the sketch.
His own Brother thought he was Z for reasons we don’t know. What makes him any different that anybody else that thought a Family member was Z??? The 2 facts I mentioned above-the RCC connection and the Exact likeness to the sketch.

We know Ross was in the RCC Library, we know he looked like a dead ringer for the sketch. Unfortunately, that’s all we know so far.If we had all the other puzzle pieces who knows how far we could take this.

Sorry Glurk, but I’m not sure that I agree with you. Are there really people who are saying there is NO reason to consider Ross as a suspect? If so that is ridiculous. Of course there are many good reasons or we wouldn’t be having this discussion. I admit I have not read all of these pages since people seemed to be taking things very personally and getting upset.

As for the evidence…there isn’t any evidence against him. I used to go around and around with this with people about ALA. There are two kinds of evidence, direct and circumstantial or indirect. Evidence is something that connects a person to an actual crime scene. They would list 17 criteria that apply to the Zodiac and call someone matching that as evidence; He had code training, he wore glasses, etc., when none of those things connect to the actual crime scene and all of those things could be true about a person and that person could still not be the killer.

So saying there is no evidence that Ross owned guns or was in the area of the crime scenes, etc. are true statements, as far as we know presently. They aren’t the opposite of saying that there is proof Ross is the killer or the case is solved.

Sorry Glurk, but I’m not sure that I agree with you. Are there really people who are saying there is NO reason to consider Ross as a suspect? If so that is ridiculous. Of course there are many good reasons or we wouldn’t be having this discussion. I admit I have not read all of these pages since people seemed to be taking things very personally and getting upset.

As for the evidence…there isn’t any evidence against him. I used to go around and around with this with people about ALA. There are two kinds of evidence, direct and circumstantial or indirect. Evidence is something that connects a person to an actual crime scene. They would list 17 criteria that apply to the Zodiac and call someone matching that as evidence; He had code training, he wore glasses, etc., when none of those things connect to the actual crime scene and all of those things could be true about a person and that person could still not be the killer.

So saying there is no evidence that Ross owned guns or was in the area of the crime scenes, etc. are true statements, as far as we know presently. They aren’t the opposite of saying that there is proof Ross is the killer or the case is solved.

This is an open Suspect discussion, and if People want to discuss Ross, they can and will Same goes for any other suspects. If somebody is tired of all the Ross stuff-guess what, there are hundreds or thousands of other threads here. There certainly IS plenty of reasons to consider Ross a Suspect, and I for one will continue to research him until I can rule him out

I’m not sure why you qouted me there Morf. If you are saying that people who are using this thread to vent frustrations because they are sick of hearing about Ross or something are just wasting their own time and not being productive, then I agree with that.

My point was that, boiled down to it, saying "Ross has been proven to be the Zodiac" compared to saying "Ross has not been proven to be the Zodiac", are not equatable opposing statements.

In other words I think pointing out where evidence is lacking is a valid con, and doesn’t mean that someone is ignoring pros or dismissing Ross as a suspect.

I’m not sure why you qouted me there Morf. If you are saying that people who are using this thread to vent frustrations because they are sick of hearing about Ross or something are just wasting their own time and not being productive, then I agree with that.

My point was that, boiled down to it, saying "Ross has been proven to be the Zodiac" compared to saying "Ross has not been proven to be the Zodiac", are not equatable opposing statements.

In other words I think pointing out where evidence is lacking is a valid con, and doesn’t mean that someone is ignoring pros or dismissing Ross as a suspect.

I quoted you because I agree with much of what you said

I’m fairly certain that what I said was that – often in this thread – there are folks saying "Yes, Ross was absolutely Zodiac!’ And of course, those saying "absolutely NOT!" I don’t even have a personal opinion on it, except that both cannot be correct.

-glurk

I’m fairly certain that what I said was that – often in this thread – there are folks saying "Yes, Ross was absolutely Zodiac!’ And of course, those saying "absolutely NOT!" I don’t even have a personal opinion on it, except that both cannot be correct.

-glurk

Hence, the reason for researching him and trying to find out the truth

Did I not say before – quoting myself:

And there are people here doing that. Using the Greek alphabet again, the MUs and the NUs are the posters here that are NOT arguing, namecalling, or fighting. They are the ones actually working and trying to dig up whatever real evidence there is.

Those who are in that "middle-space," undecided yet open-minded. Those are the people who really move things along.

It was suggested to me that this forum has become "Ross-oriented" or "Ross themed". This is a site about the Zodiac killer, the case, the clues, the suspects. I can not control what people are interested in or want to discuss. People are interested in Ross right now, and that includes people that don’t even think he was z. They are posting about him. Nobody is forcing Ross down people’s throats, if one doesn’t want to read about Ross, they are lucky, as we have hundreds or thousands of other posts, threads, suspects, etc Feel free to explore other areas of the site

I am going to ask all of the ‘ROSS AS ZODIAC SUPPORTERS’ to ease up on the anger towards the ‘ROSS COULDN’T BE Z SUPPORTERS’.
I am also going to ask People that are critical of Ross as Zodiac to respect the interest in Ross by those that are interested in him as a Suspect.

I also think, at this point, we know what the Pros & cons are of Ross as a Zodiac Suspect are, so, unless we get more info on him, we should slow up on posts here as not to overload te thread and keep repeating info.

As always, everybody is welcome to discuss via PM Ross as a Suspect.

maybe the few people who keep making absolute statements like "he is zodiac", "he isn’t zodiac" could lighten up a bit and let the rest of us have a discussion.

maybe the few people who keep making absolute statements like "he is zodiac", "he isn’t zodiac" could lighten up a bit and let the rest of us have a discussion.

Sure that helps too

I didn’t mean to get all dramatic there yesterday. I just found it very frustrating that posters, including Morf, were totally missing my point which was valid. I’m not anti-Sullivan, I just have trouble believing Z’s crimes were the work of a schitzophrenic. I wasn’t trying to come across as antagonistic and apologize if I did. I was simply challenging Morf for giving credence to a criminal profiller from 1969. It was a pros and cons thread afterall.

Maybe it wasn’t the most brilliant post, but pointing out that most of us here in 2015 who are interested in this stuff know more about serial killers than experts did at that time, maybe it’s not a fact but I hardly think it’s the stupidest comment of all time.

For the record I have nothing against Mormons or scientologists. I just think their beliefs are a little out there.

I won’t be sniffing around the RS threads anymore. Lesson learned.

Well the thread got a bit out of hand,and I am trying to cool it off. Everybody take a breath. People that claim that Ross was definitely Zodiac, are quite simply put, WRONG to say that, as are people that claim he couldn’t be Zodiac. We don’t have enough to rule him in or out.

I don’t have any issues with you feeling the way you do about mental health experts from the 60s or 70s being wrong about stuff, but maybe you can post some material that proves in which ways these experts were wrong etc,to help aide in that claim.