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Handwriting Comparison

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Posts: 1798
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I just saw this as I was laying down after swimming all afternoon today at the beach.It hit 98 degrees today in Rhode Island. They had Great White sharks jumping out of the water in Orleans at the Cape yesterday. It was on the news because somebody filmed the lady reeling in her fish and a Great White shark jumps right out of the water and steals her fish. I still swim in Narragansett Bay and at Block Island. I swam at Block Island last year even while there were Great Whites over here I just bought a Vineyard Vines swimming trunks. They are Discovery Shark Week exclusive Digital Hammerhead Shark camo. With this swimming suit on I am invisible to sharks I would assume.

Your most relevant post ever.

I am just reading this thread for the first time, and this comment gave me a good laugh. Not sure what Holmes was talking about.

Anyways… great work by Marcelo. Ted’s handwriting and the Belli letter are spot on.

A few minutes ago on a toilet not very far, far away….

Posted : March 15, 2021 10:59 am
Posts: 10
Active Member


I had just noticed today from two excerpts of both the Zodiac and the Unabomber letters that their "thank you" are basically identical indeed. The letters were quoted in the book by Doug Oswell on the subject, which I have just finished reading.

Posted : April 3, 2021 9:25 pm
Posts: 88
Trusted Member

Does it look alike?
– Yes.
Is it a match?
– No.

“Nobody called him Arthur.”

Posted : April 6, 2021 7:06 pm
AK Wilks
Posts: 1407
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Topic starter

Sam – You say Zodiac writing and Ted K writing do "look alike" but that they are "not a match". Describe how they differ.

Though we do not see eye-to-eye on the Zodiac case, Morf is hands down one of the best amateur unsolved crime researchers. I’ve had the pleasure of working with him on obtaining previously unreleased documents in the Zodiac case, investigating other murders that Zodiac might have done outside of California as well as investigating the GSK case. I know how smart he is as an investigator, how capable he is on digging up information that nobody else has found and how tenacious he is on not giving up on a project. Will probably never happen, but I have wished that he would take a fresh look at Ted as a Z suspect and see what he can find on it.

MORF13:what about the fact Ted K looked nothing like the Zodiac sketch??? Seeing is believing, and seeing a comparison of the two tells me all I need to know

I know you and others may not think much of Ted as a Z suspect, but I am honestly puzzled how you can say Ted "looked nothing like the Z sketch" Are you thinking only of how Ted looked when captured as the Unabomber in 1996? The grizzled face, long messy hair, bearded and shabby looking recluse? Because in 1969 he looked very much like the Zodiac sketch. Very short hair, neat appearance, clean shaven. His height and weight matched the description given by Officer Fouke and his partner which appears on the SFPD alert, also given by Mageau, Johns and the girls at Lake Berryessa – TK was approx 5’9" – 5’10", 160 pounds.

Look at these photos – most think they match the sketch quite well. Certainly you cannot say Ted looked "nothing like" the sketch. Similarities include short, neatly trimmed hair, stacked on top, large forehead, angular cheekbones, overall "square" type face with no fat, as opposed to round face with fat, prominent jaw line and chin sticks out, "square jawed", similarity in lips, redness -puffiness-lines under eyes, overall neat, clean "normal" appearance.

Ted K and SF sketch without glasses:

Ted K, Berkeley, 1968 ——————————-SF Zodiac Sketch No Glasses 1969


Ted K………………..…………………SF Zodiac Sketch No Glasses

Ted K ……………………………………………

At the Stine shooting in San Francisco, Zodiac was reported to be wearing glasses, IIRC described as black regular glasses. Ted K did not need to wear glasses to see, but a neighbor states that he did regularly wear dark reading glasses (like Zodiac SF 1969) to protect his eyes from the elements.

Neighbors Dave Waits and Chris Shor write in their book that:

" Ted had several pairs of glasses; all protective in nature, needed to keep wind, rain, dust, sleet or snow – depending on the season – out of his eyes. Sometimes when riding his bike he wore a full, dark, rimmed pair that looked like reading glasses, or corrective lenses, but he didn’t need glasses to see."

Of course Ted also wore sunglasses as the Unabomber, as a disguise method, to cover his eyes, part of his face and break up the face, as well as for protection against the elements.

So he could have very well been wearing glasses, if he was the Zodiac, the night that Paul Stine was killed, both as a method of disguise and a way to protect the eyes from the elements.

Whoever Zodiac was, I think it’s unlikely that he needed prescription glasses to see. Mageau reports that Zodiac was not wearing any glasses.

See Unabomber: The Secret Life of Ted Kaczynski, page 42.

This is the San Francisco Zodiac sketch (1969) and a picture of Ted Kaczynski at UC Berkeley (1968), with glasses added on.

I’m still amazed that so many people seem to consider Kaczynski as not being a convincing suspect in the Zodiac case, while offering the goofiest names as the answer to who was the Z :roll:

Morf: He’s completely the opposite kind of killer that Zodiac was. That’s why Ted is dismissed so easily. Different signatures & MO’s = different killers

AK Wilks: The VR, EAR & the ONS each had very different MO’s, signatures, victims and areas. Yet we now know they were all done by one man. Killers can evolve and change. The Zodiac started as an up close and personal killer, but evolved into one who designed bombs, made bomb threats against mass transit and threatened sniper attacks. Kaczynski designed bombs, made bomb threats against mass transit and carried out a sniper rifle attack at a mining site (wounding one man).

I am curious as to why you think Zodiac and Ted Kaczynski are the "opposite" kind of killers? First of all, unlike every other major named suspect, THEY ARE BOTH SERIAL KILLERS.

When I talked to Paul Holes many years ago, I told him that some police dismissed Ted as a major Z suspect because he only killed with bombs (that we know of for sure). Paul told me that in his opinion sometimes police were "overly rigid" with their profiles. He said what was more important to him than weapon of choice was the desire to kill and actually killing strangers. He noted Ted had actually killed people, unlike every other credible suspect. He also said the overwhelming majority of the murders he saw every day were people killing people they know. Husbands and wives, boyfriends and girlfriends, family members, neighbors, even competing criminal gangs, etc. The killer knows the victim. Very rare is one who kills perfect strangers, as Z and Ted did.

So both Zodiac and Ted are serial killers who kill people they never met. That is a rare group. Even rarer is that they both wrote to newspapers and police about their crimes. He said contrary to what is often shown in TV and movies, most serial killers do NOT write letters to newspapers or police. Bundy, Gacy and the vast majority of serial killers DO NOT write letters to media or police. Both Z and TK wrote to newspapers, so he found it very interesting that they shared that in common.

Second, Zodiac DID shoot a man at a mining site with a rifle. He did torture and kill dogs with both knives and guns. He recorded a desire to kill people by "bomb or other means". He wrote fantasies about mutilating a women’s face with a knife. He spent a year and made a one shot .22 pistol from wood and junk parts that he wrote he intended to use as a "homicide weapon". As a one shot untraceable weapon, it would best be used in situations up close and personal were the victim was immobile, such as being bound.

In the journal that described all 16 Unabomber crimes, including three murders by bomb, he wrote that he buried or burned accounts of other unspecified crimes. At a time when the Unabomber was getting some favorable opinions from radical environmental and primitivist anarchist journals and groups, he wrote he buried or burned accounts of these unspecified "other" crimes because their revelation could be "dangerous", "embarrassing" or "just very bad public relations at this point in time".

Certainly stabbing and shooting teens in lovers lanes would not be good for his image as a deadly but principled guerrilla and terrorist fighting large corporations and spoilers of the Earth.

Third, Zodiac wrote letters to newspapers threatening to kill innocents unless his words appeared in the paper. Ted wrote letters to newspapers threatening to kill innocents unless his words appeared in the paper.

Fourth, Zodiac killed couples in known make out and lovemaking spots. In September 1966, after a failed bid for a sex change operation and thoughts of suicide, Ted wrote that instead of killing himself he would and could now "REALLY kill" those he "hated", which included couples having sex (which was driving him "mad" as he suffered from what he called "acute sexual starvation"), "college students", "promiscuous" men and especially "promiscuous" women, who were just "animals", "pigs". Zodiac moved on to bomb threats, designing bombs, sniper threats and creating an elaborate code the FBI could not break. Ted designed bombs, made bomb threats, did bomb attacks, did a sniper attack, created an elaborate code the FBI could not break.

Look at these other similarities:


* Kaczynski lived in the SF Bay area during the time of most of the confirmed Zodiac murders. He was a professor at the University of California Berkeley from 1967 until the summer of 1969. It is said at the Zodiac Killer website (without any supporting evidence presented) that Ted K was out of the State of California on several dates of Zodiac activity. This is false.

* Kaczynski’s attorney said he could not provide any alibi dates for Zodiac murder and mailing dates, starting with Bates in 1966 and going to the 1974 letters, and also including the Santa Barbara murders in 1963 and the Swindle murders in 1964. Not that he would not, but that he could not.

* Both Zodiac and Kaczynski were ruthless killers, highly intelligent and interested in and expert at bombs and codes.

* Both made references to opera, literature and Norse myths.

* Both demanded their words be published on the front pages of newspapers on penalty of death for innocents if not done.

* Both threatened to bomb mass transit.

* Both left drawings of crossed lines inside circles at crime scenes.

* Both used crossed lines inside circles as signatures.

* Both sent taunting messages to police and family members of victims.

* Both usually used excessive postage, often double postage.

* Both wrote checkmark "r" ‘s, three stroke "k" ‘s, five stroke "m" ‘s and had many other handwriting matches.

* Both commented on the bounty put on their head.

* Both were filled with hatred and a desire for revenge against society.

* Both owned and used Winchester .22 Super X ammo.

* Both had guns with flashlights attached to the barrel.

* Kaczynski shot a man at a mining site with a rifle – Zodiac threatened to shoot school kids on a bus with a rifle

* Both had an unusual walk – Officer Fouke said the man he saw at the Stine crime scene walked with a "lumbering gait…a semi-limp", a girl at Lake Berryessa observed that a man watching them who may have been the Zodiac "favored one leg over the other", and David Kaczynski said his brother Ted was "noticably pigeon-toed" and that it "affected the way he walked".

* Both had knowledge of Deer Lodge, Montana. Zodiac said he escaped from the prison in Deer Lodge, Montana. And weeks earlier Ted had just driven through this same area with his brother. It made such an impression on him that he bought a cabin there.

* Zodiac taunted police, hinted he shot SFPD Officer Radetich and most importantly attacked and killed couples in known love making spots; Kaczynski recorded a desire in his journal to kill "police", "college students", "promiscuous" women and men and "noisy" love making "couples" in September of 1966.


Found in Ted’s cabin were a black hood, flat on top, with rectangular eye slits, a gun with a flashlight attached to the barrel and Winchester .22 Super X ammo. Z used a black hood, flat on top, rectangular eye slits. Z bragged of using a gun with a flashlight attached. Z used Winchester .22 Super X ammo at LHR 68 and the killer at SB 63 used the same ammo.


Found in the Kaczynski cabin, it is a BLACK hood with rectangular eye slits.

Compare it to the Zodiac black hood:

As for signature, they both left crossed lines inside and over circles at crime scenes, with further writing indicating weapon used and previous crimes. Zodiac added
By Knife" to indicate the weapon used and added the dates of previous attacks to take credit for those crimes. The Unabomber added "FC", which was stamped on previously sent pipe bombs, so adding FC to the symbol drawing did indicate weapon used and previous crimes committed.

And unlike any other named suspect, Doug Oswell and I have identified more than 26 words and even multi-word phrases that both Z and TK used: just some of the examples of ZK/TK shared words and phrases are blast, trigger mechanism, busy work, around in the snow, contrary to what police say, to prove I am responsible, information only I and the police know, Deplorable, goes bang, watched from cover, rather messy, be sure to, the damned thing, shabby, fiddle around, nasty, fat ass,etc., etc., etc. Plus the amazing handwriting matches. See shared words and handwriting here: viewtopic.php?f=102&t=250

Marcelo did an INCREDIBLE comparison of Z and TK handwriting.

MARCELO: below are links of the letters "matrix" Ted K. of which "took" the "stuff" to construct the similar letter to Zodiac. (images below mentioned links)
happiness to all.
Marcelo ;)

One line is Zodiac, one is TK. Can you tell which is which? Not only is TK’s handwriting the most similar to Zodiac’s, by far, in many cases it is virtually indistinguishable. Which line is Z, which line is TK?:

Morf, and others, ultimately we may just agree that we will disagree. But when you have even an hour or two, go to: viewtopic.php?f=102&t=938 , for the best facts and evidence on TK as Z. For more on the incredible shared words and very similar handwriting go here: viewtopic.php?f=102&t=250

Found by up2something, from the newly released letters:

Zodiac Killer: . I wish you a happy Christmas.
Ted Kaczynski: Meanwhile, I wish you a happy Easter.

Found by Kite, from the newly released letters:

Ted Kaczynski:Meanwhile, I wish you a happy Easter
Zodiac Killer..:Meanwhile, cancel the Count Marco column.

Kite: Written just like that, with a capital M on a sentence-opening "Meanwhile," and then a comma.


Posted : April 19, 2021 8:00 am
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