I’m jumping into this thread late, so my post might not make sense or fit. I apologize if that’s the case.

If I’m not mistaken, after the Stine killing, the local papers were reluctant to print many of the Zodiac letters as to not to cause a panic. Many of the letters he sent were not printed until weeks or months later. I think Zodiac stopped killing because he had gotten the notoriety that he sought, and stopped letter writing because he was no longer front page news. Just my hypothesis.

The bomb threat was held back until the Dragon card.

Was thinking about the Stine murder change tonight and had a thought that maybe the reason he changed with Stine is as simple as this: he lost his ability to drive.

Zodiac controlled the previous murders by choosing remote locations he could drive in to do the killings with a reasonable assessment of the risk of the moment calculated from the anonymity of his car. If he lost his ability to drive, a cabbie would be a way he could control the risk in a similar way simply by having them drive him to a pre selected spot and scoping it out from the back seat in the moment to decide if he would proceed or not. Of course, it got out of hand with how close a call it was with Stine and he decided he couldn’t do it that way again after.

I know it’s debated that he did more killing after, and, while not discounting the merit of that position, if he did indeed stop here, maybe not being able to drive had something to do with it?

Was thinking about the Stine murder change tonight and had a thought that maybe the reason he changed with Stine is as simple as this: he lost his ability to drive.

This is very clever!! So, reasons…

1) Illness
2) Poverty
3) Change in location (no parking space
4) Injury

…..

Maybe take a look through traffic court!!!

The brief encounter with the SFPD three minutes after the Stine murder might have scared the Zodiac from SF!

I suspect Z removed himself from the immediate SF area after the Presidio crime – once the workable composite image of him surfaced [fingerprint evidence, too]. Z rightly felt SF proper was too hot for him. Z’s effort to downplay the Presidio composite sketch shows instead that the sketch actually did cause him serious concern. Maybe that’s why Z was in the less urban area prowling and finding only Kathleen Johns?

Doubtful that Z’s criminal impulses went into remission, as his continued letters imply. The Z persona forced itself into retirement lest it get itself caught.

@khys If Z did lose his ability to drive, that would rule him out of the Kathleen Johns kidnapping!

Posted by: @theforeigner

Zodiac probably never stopped killing just, as he claimed in his Nov 9th 1969 letter, stopped writing/bragging about his killings:

Zodiac letter November 9th 1969
sent to the San Francisco Chronicle

Quote:
“This is the Zodiac speaking up to the end of Oct I have killed 7 people. I have
grown rather angry with the police for their telling lies about me. So I shall
change the way the collecting of slaves. I shall no longer announce to anyone.
When I committ my murders, they shall look like routine robberies, killings of
anger, + a few fake accidents, etc.
The police shall never catch me, because I have been too clever for them.”

I totally agree with you TF! There were several Z like murders that continued through the 1990s in Contra Costa County. That killer confessed to being the Zodiac, he told the police he killed all of the victims in their area. As soon as I heard about those murders and that he claimed to be Zodiac. I did my own stakeout,  to see if he could be my suspect? In 1990 when I saw the man I had gotten away from in Vallejo/ Napa in the winter of 1968, I took a picture of him in CCCounty and made copies of the picture I took on Aug 10th, 1990. I handed out his picture to several of the girls he was focusing on during that time. They were mostly prostitutes, but a few were not, which got the police to do a better investigation.

Part of the problem was some victims were within the city limits the others were within the sheriff’s jurisdiction. Apparently, they weren’t sharing information, because one didn’t tell the other that a man phoned in and claimed to be the killer of Andrea Ingersol and told them where to find her body. Then told them he was Zodiac! They did find Andrea’s body where he said she was, but refused to believe he was Zodiac. My eldest daughter was friends with Andrea and was with her just an hour before she disappeared! My daughter was fearful of my stalker, he also threatened to kill her and was stalking her for several years.  

While I was handing out copies of his picture to the prostitutes, one screamed out when she saw his picture, she told me how she had escaped from his truck after he hit her in the head with a hammer and then pulled a long knife out from under his front seat!  Long story short, she jumped out of his truck. Others remember seeing him and told me he was taking pictures of them as they were crossing the street. It was about a month or so after handing out his picture, I received one of them in the mail. The girls did not know my name, let alone my address! Of course, my suspect knew it as well as my phone number. He wanted me to know he had killed one of the girls I gave his picture to.

I reported all of this to the detective as well as several license plate numbers, two were black Monte Carlos, which was described by one of the girls he left for dead in a porta-potty at the construction site he was working at during that time. That detective seemed happy that I took the suspect’s picture because it matched who he was looking for. Not long after the meeting with that detective, I received a call from the DA, who told me he would not take the word of any prostitute?  That case is still unsolved because of one extremely ignorant DA. Thank goodness he didn’t work the Green River case, or that would not have been solved. It was with the help of those prostitutes, that it was solved!  

Miss Sandy,

You said ” That killer confessed to being the Zodiac, he told the police he killed all of the victims in their area. As soon as I heard about those murders and that he claimed to be Zodiac.”

Are you able to divulge the name of that person? You may have already told us but I would love you to just tell me if you can! I am so tired and can’t comb thru all the pages!!! 🙂 🙂

Thank you!

@khys I am pretty sure he Killed Stine for more than one reason. The first was to prove he could kill anyone, anywhere. The second was to show he not only liked killing females. Third, he needed Stine’s driver’s license to steal his identity, because he looked a lot like him and was about the same age. The fourth was to throw the police off where he actually lived, which I believe was Vallejo. 

The fifth possible reason,  could be he was driving the other car that Stine hit just days before? I have looked in the newspaper for that accident but couldn’t find anything? 

@margie I refer to him as Honcho, because I do not know his full name. I have been told by people who have worked with him and others who have talked to him, that he goes by Anthony or Tony, with no last name as of yet. I have a few last names I am checking from cars and trucks he has driven. Some of the names are Hernandez, Lopez, Duarte, Gentry, and Cannatella. He was seen driving Gentry’s car more often. He and another man followed my son and his wife to Lake Tahoe and purposely crashed into his newly painted car, and drove off laughing with another person in his car. He was seen by witnesses who gave my son the license plate. That car was from Antioch Ca. There was a driver who worked at the Presidio in S.F. in 1969 with the last name of Gentry. That can be checked in the S, F, City directory! 

@sandy-betts Those points seem reasonable.  I was just speculating for whatever that’s worth.  With most of the focus being on Zodiac stashing a car near by and driving away, I think we shouldn’t forget that there are other options.  I didn’t know about the accident – you always seem to know really interesting tidbits, Sandy!  That’s interesting.

Z’s attacks the previous three times were lonely locations accessible by car.  They were controllable.  He always seemed to have a strategy that he improved upon with each attempt.  The premise of this thread is that Z changed for Stine but maybe he didn’t?  There are a lot of similarities if you look.  He could control the situation by car as before with a taxi driver by taking him out somewhere lonely and being able to read the area upon arrival.  And he was really close to his preffered killing spot of a park area – this one in the Presidio.  To me, at least, this opens up the possibility that maybe his original plan was to take the taxi into that area and kill a couple of people after he killed the driver – sort of a Jack the Ripper multiple murders in one night homage. 

Whether that was the case or not, he had some kind of preparation for this attack.  I’m not sure how likely that scenario is but it doesn’t seem out of the realm of reason.  Considering the killings ended after, as far as is generally considered canonical, maybe he couldn’t do it because he just couldn’t drive/lost his car.  If he was an average joe with a low paying day job like a lot of people think, transportation issues are the norm with those in that situation.  If he had mental issues like a lot of people think, he mighta had his drivers license or car taken away.  I still think there is merit in drawing a line between Washington + Cherry and Mason + Geary and looking at residences in the middle for suspects.  Zodiac did take off on foot in that general direction and Washington/Cherry is a walkable distance that isn’t too close to home.  

Again, I’m not sure that’s the most likely scenario, just one that we shouldn’t forget is possible.

@russ-thompson It might, for sure!  I was never big on Kathleen Johns, honestly.  But what do i know?

If anything, he escalated! What if I am correct and one of my suspects is/was Zodiac? He drew me a map of his murders in northern Calif. There are 70 victims on that map which was drawn before the 12 murdered victims in Contra Costa County during the 1980s through 1990s and possibly one more in 2007?  There is a chance of course he lied about the Santa Rosa murders and perhaps others, but he also could be telling the truth? 

I am making this claim due to witnesses I spoke to who escaped my suspect in Contra Costa County, they ID’d the picture I have of him! He is in fact the man who followed me from Vallejo to Napa at 2 am one weekend in the winter of 1968. Even if I am wrong about him being the Zodiac, my suspect is at the very least a serial killer! I have not seen him for about three years, I was told he died of cirrhosis of the liver. His partner in crime is still alive and has a family. That one I call RH like the initials on the desk poem at Riverside. 

@replaceablehead,  I like your analysis of serial killer behaviour and equates with the psychopath getting enjoyment out of hurting others. This case is not like that at all. I think the absence of the typical features of a psychopathic serial killer points to a completely different motive for the killings and away from this type of killer. I think the dramatic change in his MO after Cold Rock Springs is the key to understanding the motive.